DOM: Welcome to our third edition of The White Out podcast – summer editions. My name is Dom Killinger from InTheSnow magazine and as always I’m here with my co-host, Rob Stewart, prince of the pine trees, duke of the mountains, king of the marmottes…

ROB: king of the Marmottes, I mean after being duke of the mountains I was expecting something a bit more regal than a marmotte, although everyone loves spotting a marmotte. It’s one thing spotting a squirrel but a marmotte, way better, so I’ll take it.

DOM: did you know Rob that Ludvig van Beethoven wrote a song about a Marmotte and the writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote some lyrics to go with it.

ROB: errr no Dom, I did not know this, but it suggests that old Luddy – can we call him that?...was a mountain lover so that’s fantastic news.

DOM: yes he clearly got excited by Marmottes

ROB: like we all do

DOM: shall I play you as clip of ‘Marmotte’ by Beethoven, sang by Ian Bostridge, piano by Antonio Papanno and words of course by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe…

ROB: oh go on then..

https://youtu.be/hz8PxZ_lOEc?si=cUY0HSmcsB53Lwsw

ROB: wow, that really conjures up an image of cute little furry animals scurrying around behind snow capped peaks…I’m really there

DOM: I think I’ll stick to the images of the peaks Rob, but good to know your imagination is still creative, you should write a podcast script!

ROB: ha ha yes it’s always what I dreamt of, writing about Marmottes. Actually my daughter who is now 14 years old has a large plastic table matt full of marmotte photos, we’ve had for years, like I reckon 6 or 7 and it’s still going. Bought it in a supermarket in Morzine, so I get to see Marmottes every day when I eat.

DOM: So you are in some ways king of the Marmottes after all Rob. Just imagine if those pictures were of rats, I mean it would be horrendous.

ROB: well apparently it’s the summer of the hot rodent boyfriend…

DOM: errr, what!?

ROB: yeah I don’t know, check it out, but apparently it’s a gen z thing liking men that look like rats, I read about it this week in The Times.

DOM: ummm well I’m certainly not going to Google ‘the summer of the hot rodent boyfriend’, who knows what might come up.

ROB: marmottes probably.

DOM: or maybe you Rob, the king of the marmottes.

ROB: there you go, just google the summer of the hot rodent boyfriend, and my pic appears…anyway, Marmottes are like Marmite, you either love em or hate em so we should move on…

DOM: right Rob and so onto the hot summer news, what’s happening out there in the heat…

ROB: well actually things have been pretty cool in the Alps and it has been reported by the Swiss Glacier Monitoring Network, Glamos that the countries glaciers have 31% more snow on them now than on average over the years between 2010 and 2020.

DOM: yes that’s great news because we know that during 2022 they lost 6% of their ice and last year 4% of it, so this is going to really help top things up on the 1400 glaciers they have in Switzerland.

ROB: yes there’s still lots of snow up high in the Alps and great glacier skiing conditions too. what else is happening Dom?

DOM: a new report about France’s ski season has just come out with some good news about the snow because above 1800 metres, snow accumulation was 20-30 cm’s above the average. 9% of skiers in French resort were from the UK, that’s the largest group after the French. Also the alps and the Pyrenees have both seen accommodation numbers rising as more people opt for higher, more snow secure destinations.

ROB: yes there was a lot of bad news about snow this season but actually it wasn’t a bad winter as long as you were skiing above 1500 metres and then major resorts with villages below altitude have such great artificial snow making. Got any deals on summer holidays Dom?

DOM: funny you say that because our friends at Peak Retreats have just launched what they say are affordable family summer holidays in the mountains and I took a look at some of the deals they have on offer – they go to the likes of Les Contamines, Samoens, Le Grand Bornand and Val Cenis. For around £1100 you can get a nice two bedroom apartment for a week that also includes a return ferry crossing, so pretty decent. Check those out at peakretreats.co.uk

ROB: I’ve noticed more agents and operators offering summer holidays too, I can see that Skiline are offering chalets in Les Gets, Morzine and some of the Austrian resorts too. Chalets and apartments significantly lower than during the winter months, even during the school holidays.

DOM: Well fairly quiet on the news front then, suffice to say that the summer season is really kicking off now and bike parks are opening up, lifts are opening for hikers and the summer skiing season is just underway too. the weather looks like it’s starting to settle down and although there’s still snow at altitude, that will be gone soon enough.

ROB: yeah some of the high level hiking paths do still have some snow on them and that leads us nicely into our activity focus section this week, which is all about mountaineering, rock climbing and via ferrata.

DOM: yes which covers quite a lot of different areas that can be suited for all levels and range from pretty mellow to very extreme.

ROB: yes it’s a huge area and we’ll provide an overview of all three of those categories – we could start by throwing forest parks in there too because I have dragged my daughter around many over the years and it’s a great way to get used to heights.

DOM: yes and most resorts in the Alps and other mountain ranges have them. The one in Chamonix is amazing, the black line is incredibly high.

ROB: yes true and it happens to be right next to the well-known rock climbing crag in Chamonix, at Les Gaillands. It’s a sort of climbing training ground, pretty high, so let’s start with Rock Climbing then…sometimes referred to as sport climbing, it normally involves two people climbing as a pair with a rope. There’s lots of indoor climbing centres in the UK where you can learn or practice, plus the UK has a lot of natural climbing locations too. Of course you can climb without ropes and this is called solo climbing but I wouldn’t recommend it! With rock climbing, if it’s just a single pitch climb – normally between 20 to 40 metres in length, this could be set up as what’s known as a top rope. The rope is secured to the climber and the second person who is known as a bilayer. Belaying is a technique used in climbing where one person manages the rope to protect the climber from falls, ensuring their safety and controlling their descent after the climb. That person could be standing at the bottom of the climb or secured in some way at the top of the climb. Top roping is generally the safest form of climbing – but then you have lead climbing which involves the climber and the belayer starting from the bottom and then attaching the rope to certain points during the climb known as protection. The protection can come in the form of a fixed bolt, for example, or placed gear. When you place gear – and there’s lots of various forms of what’s known as gear such as nuts, cams (or friends), quick drawers, hexes…lots of different little tools to ram into the rock. Whatever the protection is, the climber then connects their rope via and karabiner to that protection and if they fall, the belayer can hold them by locking the rope. With me so far…

DOM: yep, go on

ROB: okay so then the climber continues to the top of the climb which would either be when the rock face naturally ends or could be when the rope length runs out, that climber is known as the lead and they then belay the second climber up who would remove the gear as they go, or just unclip the karabiner on each bolt if they are fixed bolts. In The Alps most known rock climbing routes do have fixed bolts in them. if you’re doing a multi pitch climb then one of the climbers starts over again – could be the same lead climber or you can swap over, generally the more experienced climber would lead. It’s really important that the belayer is secured properly to the rock, obviously. That’s a very quick overview of the basics.

DOM: then of course we also have mountaineering which is climbing mountains, but not necessarily on rock faces. So for example, this could include climbing Mont Blanc or similar peaks over 4,000 metres in the Alps.

ROB: exactly, and then there’s the Himalayas, the Andes, but also places such as Scotland. Mountaineering often involves ropes, but it’s normal for two climbers to be attached to each other, if one falls the other can arrest that fall. But anyone starting off for the first time must go with a guide.

DOM: it’s a huge area and there’s many different facets, whether you’re climbing on snow and need crampons, or if it’s on rock, winter or summer because you have ice climbing during the winter obviously.

ROB: yes it’s not the sort of thing you just suddenly wake up one day and go, I know what, I’ll go mountaineering today for the first time, off I go. But of course via ferrata is a bit different, although you still need to be prepared.

DOM: yes via ferrata has grown in popularity over the last ten years and there’s now many locations across the Alps and other mountain ranges where you can try it. really it started off in the Dolomites and during the first world war a network of ladders and cables was established to help soldiers safely get over the mountains.

ROB: yes the name means Iron path in Italian and following the second world way, climbers started to use these ladders and cables for recreational use. They have been really developed into incredible networks that can help you climb really long and exposed routes in relative safety.

DOM: yes if you’ve ever been to one of those forest rope parks, (ROB: like Go Ape here in the UK right), yes exactly…then the concept works in a similar way. you’re harness attaches to the cable and then you go, you can clip in to various bolts and ladders along the way.

ROB: it is worth remembering that via ferrata is not a controlled recreational park like one of the forest centres though. You don’t get staff, instructions and the safety controls that the parks have aren’t usually there – in other words sometimes you do need to fully unclip and get back on again.

DOM: you can hire guides for via ferrata and that is highly recommended.

ROB: absolutely, right let’s look at a few spots where you can try these various activities.

DOM: starting with rock climbing, well the UK is as good as it gets to start off with. Chances are if you live in a populated area of the UK, there’s a climbing wall close by. They are great places to start, you can get instruction to start with, learn the basics and then just go for it. Climbing walls include short, boulder type climbs that would have crash Matts underneath them and then normally longer routes that involve a top rope.

ROB: yes and that rope is sometimes on what’s known as an auto belay, so you don’t need a second person, the rope self-locks from the top if you fall, very clever, although it does take a bit of getting used to.

DOM: there’s plenty of companies that offer rock climbing courses in the UK and across the Alps.

ROB: yeah I checked out a website we know that offers courses called AWE365.com and it pulled up a number of rock climbing holidays in France and Spain starting at around £850 for a week and on the upper end, I’ve seen a company offering rock climbing and sailing in Sardinia – more like £3000 for a week, and that’s called 57hours.com – the UCPA on the value end of the scale offers loads of courses in France too, both in the Alps and in other destinations, they are found on actionoutdoors.co.uk, an all-inclusive beginners climbing week in the Verdon costs around £750.

DOM: yes and those companies also offer mountaineering courses too. Chamonix is an obvious place to go to for mountaineering generally, there’s so much there including Mont Blanc, western Europe’s highest mountain at 4,805 metres, but you’ve got other classic routes there too including the grand Jorasses, the aiguille du dru and aiguille Verte, but they are serious climbs.

ROB: yeah they need a bit of working up to. Actually Glenmore Lodge near Aviemore in Scotland is a great set up and they run lots of mountaineering courses all year round and then offer trips to the Alps too. what about via ferrata dom?

DOM: well like we said before, he dolomites are still probably the most famous destination to experience via ferrata and there’s so much there – publishers Cicerone have a guide book with 75 routes included, there’s a print or online edition and the book costs around £20 from cicerone.co.ukt

ROB: yes good one, that’s c.i.c.e.r.o.n.e – I’m also going to mention a really cool via ferrata I did a few years ago in the Swiss resort of Saas Fee, which actually starts in the town, or close to it, and goes down and up a gorge below the town. I went with a guide and it was worth having one – it’s great fun, like a mix of those forest parks because there’s zip wires along the way too. a great intro to Via Ferratering.

DOM: not sure about via Ferratering Rob but that does lead us nicely into this editions destination focus which is the Swiss Valais region that obviously includes Saas Fee but also a whole bunch of other world class resorts that many know in winter for skiing but perhaps not so much in the summer.

ROB: yep what a mountain playground the Swiss Valais is. we’re going to run through some of these places and just say what they are particularly good for, but I’d say just explore the whole area because there’s so much to offer. It’s also of course both French and German speaking depending on what end of the region you happen to be in.

DOM: yes I’ll run through the places we’re talking about starting with arguably the most famous which is the town of Zermatt, but then you have Verbier, Nendaz, Crans-Montana, Anzère, Veysonnaz, Saas Fee, Leukerbad, Grimentz and Zinal.

ROB: yeah that’s a great list plus a whole load of smaller places and the city of Sion which is really interesting. Right let’s take turns in running through why you might go to each place, I’ll start with…

Zermatt: climb the Matterhorn, hike to Italy for lunch, experience the mountains by cable car, eat great food. It’s not cheap but it’s obviously a must visit place, at least once.

DOM: okay so Crans-Montana…stay in super luxury hotels, do some spa stuff, play golf, go wakeboarding, try e-mountain biking, hike south facing slopes and drink incredible local wine.

ROB: yeah it’s sounding good! okay so Verbier – ride a huge network of mountain bike trails, listen to classical music, hang out in cool bars and pubs, great hiking of course and explore the area on a road bike.

DOM: ummm right Nendaz and Veysonnaz, relax with the family, take long hikes, try paragliding, have a go at via ferrata and of course try mountain biking too.

ROB: so saas fee, well we mentioned the via ferrata, again great hiking but spectacular glacier scenery too and ride the funicular to the top, relax in the very traditional village, there’s some decent climbing there too not to mention the mountaineering options.

DOM: yes the area really is amazing and it’s worth checking out the regions website Valais.ch/en

ROB: other mountain regions are available and we haven’t been paid to mention Valais!

DOM: right Rob, what about a bucket list destination, obviously we know the Valais and for some that is a bucket list place but what about you?

ROB: well I was thinking Whistler in British Columbia of course because I have never been there and I’ve heard it’s epic during the summer and we’ve done a bit of research although I know you’ve been there during the winter Dom.

DOM: yes I have but it’s a good one for summer too Rob because last week we were in Austria but now it’s time to head across the pond to the incredible landscapes of Whistler. Now, Whistler is renowned for its winter sports, but in the summer, it transforms into an outdoor paradise. Located in the Coastal Mountains of BC, it’s just a couple of hours' drive from Vancouver, making it an accessible adventure spot from the city.

ROB: Absolutely, Dom. Whistler in the summer clearly has a lot to offer. You’ve got the Whistler Mountain Bike Park, which is a mecca for mountain bikers. It features over 80 kilometers of trails for all skill levels, from easy green trails to challenging double black diamonds. If you’re into biking, this is the place to be. And don’t forget about the Peak to Peak Gondola, which offers breathtaking views as you traverse the span between Whistler and Blackcomb Mountains.

DOM: And speaking of mountains, one of the highlights for hikers is the High Note Trail. Starting from the top of Whistler Mountain, this 9.4 km loop offers stunning panoramic views of the surrounding peaks and valleys. It's a must-do for any hiking enthusiast visiting the area.

ROB: For sure, Dom. But it's not just about the adrenaline-fueled activities. Whistler also has a thriving arts and culture scene. The Audain Art Museum, for instance, showcases a fantastic collection of indigenous art and contemporary works. Plus, there’s the Squamish Lil'wat Cultural Centre where you can learn about the First Nations cultures of the area.

DOM: Nice. And let’s not forget the events and festivals that Whistler hosts throughout the summer. One of the biggest is Crankworx, the world’s largest mountain bike festival. It’s a week-long event filled with competitions, exhibitions, and plenty of mountain biking action and takes place in July. For a more laid-back experience, the Whistler Children's Festival is perfect for families, offering a mix of arts, crafts, and performances.

ROB: Oh, and for those looking to relax and unwind, I’ve heard about the Scandinavian Spa. It’s set in a serene forest environment where you can enjoy the Scandinavian baths, saunas, and relaxation areas. It’s the perfect spot to recharge after a day of adventure.

DOM: And for a bit of luxury, you can stay at the Fairmont Chateau Whistler or the Four Seasons Resort. Both offer top-notch accommodations and amenities. Plus, there’s plenty of dining options in Whistler Village, from casual eateries to fine dining restaurants.

ROB: Yeah, and if you’re a foodie, Whistler won’t disappoint. The Whistler Farmers' Market, held every Sunday, is a great place to sample local produce and artisan foods. You can find everything from fresh berries and baked goods to handmade crafts.

DOM: I have to mention the golfing opportunities too. The Whistler Golf Club, designed by Arnold Palmer, and the Nicklaus North Golf Course, designed by Jack Nicklaus, offer spectacular views and challenging courses. Perfect for a summer round of golf.

ROB: And let’s not forget about the lakes. Whistler has five beautiful lakes where you can swim, paddleboard, kayak, or just relax on the beach. Lost Lake, in particular, is a favourite for its sandy beach and calm waters, ideal for a family day out.

DOM: So, whether you’re looking for adventure, relaxation, or a bit of both, Whistler in the summer has something for everyone. With its stunning natural beauty, diverse activities, and vibrant village, it’s a destination that should definitely be on your bucket list.

ROB: Agreed, Dom. And with convenient access from Vancouver, it's easy to see why Whistler is such a popular summer destination. More info on all of this can be found at whistler.com

DOM: That wraps up our spotlight on Whistler, British Columbia. Rob, I think it’s time we planned a trip there ourselves.

ROB: Sounds like a plan, Dom. I’m ready for some mountain biking and spa relaxation. Whistler, here we come!

DOM: Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast for more travel inspiration and tips. Until next time, happy travels

Finishing music from Les Marmottes: https://youtu.be/cuwzI5tqth4?si=h7901ELMyeDojMCe